Bianca Low Kum: Somatic Experiencing for People and Dogs

Bianca is a somatic practitioner with over a decade of experience in the mental health field, specializing in Somatic Experiencing®-informed work. Her approach is grounded in the understanding that our experiences live not just in the mind, but in the body—shaping patterns, behaviors, and emotional responses in everyday life.

She began her work in mental health as a volunteer on the Distress Lines with Community Torchlight and holds a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology from the University of Guelph, along with a post-graduate certificate in Addiction: Treatment and Prevention from Georgian College. She is currently completing her certification as a Somatic Experiencing® Practitioner, with full qualification expected in May 2026.

Bianca currently works as a Community Outreach Counselor with St. Joseph’s Healthcare Hamilton, supporting both adults and youth navigating complex challenges, including homelessness, addiction, PTSD, medical trauma, and experiences of physical or sexual abuse. Her work is grounded, practical, and deeply client-centered, shaped by years of real-world experience supporting individuals in high-acuity situations.

In addition to her clinical work, Bianca has a strong foundation in dog behavior. She began working as a veterinary care attendant in high school and continued through university, where she also raised three Lions Foundation of Canada Dog Guide puppies. She has continued her education with respected trainers: Rachel Allen of The Healing Pack, Liz Foley of Your Favourite Dog Trainer, Hanna Feuer of Mindful Dog Co., and Nelson Hodges of the Canine Human Relationship Institute.

Bianca is especially passionate about the intersection of human emotional well-being and dog behavior. She supports her clients in developing greater self-awareness and emotional capacity, while also helping their dogs learn, regulate, and succeed. Her work recognizes that lasting change happens not just through training the dog, but through supporting the nervous system of the human as well.

Known for her thoughtful and compassionate presence, Bianca helps individuals who feel stuck, overwhelmed, or disconnected begin to shift long-standing patterns with greater awareness and empathy. She creates space for a more attuned relationship with the self—where all emotions and sensations, both comfortable and uncomfortable, can be explored and integrated in a way that supports meaningful, lasting change.

Follow on Bianca on  Instagram 

Bianca's counseling website: Primal Wisdom

CHRI Workshops 

Glossary of Nervous System Terms 

Transcript

Leah Lykos 0:03

Welcome back, friends, to another episode of the Somatic Hound Podcast. Today I'm really excited to speak with my new friend who I guess what met on Instagram. Like all my friends that I bring on the podcast. Her name is Bianca Locum. And she works with dogs, but she also works with people. So her work is really interesting because it touches on all the nervous system material that I'm really getting into now in terms of co-regulation and also just making sure that as the human part of the equation, we are taking care of our own nervous systems first. And I think you are about to be certified in somatic experiencing.

Bianca Low Kum 0:57

Yes. May. I just gotta get all my finished my last course and gotta get all my ducks in a row. And then I can officially call myself a somatic experiencing practitioner.

Leah Lykos 1:09

Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. So why don't you give even like a little bit more of your background, what you specialize in, how you got into working with dogs and working with people, and then how you kind of combine that?

Bianca Low Kum 1:25

Yeah. Um, so let's, I guess we'll start with my background in mental health. So I completed a BA in psychology way back when, about 10 years ago, give or take. Um and then, but if you do a BA in psych, what I didn't realize, it's not a working degree. And so you still need continuing education right afterwards. Um, and I remember I didn't get into my master's, so I went to college instead right after, and I did addictions treatment and prevention and got certified there, which enabled me to work for a hospital as an addictions counselor. And I did detox and rehab for about a year before switching into outreach and community work, which is where I'm still currently working part-time. And so with that, I'm working a lot with low-income folks, um, high acuity when it comes to mental illness. Um, lots of lots of instability there, right? And then in between, I've just done my own personal ongoing trainings, which is through somatic experiencing institute, um, which I honestly I love, love, love. Because as much as I learned a lot of other modalities through school, it always comes back. Some of the issues come back to trauma. And so, how do we renegotiate trauma there? Um, and then for the dog stuff, so I've been I've been doing that for a long time. So I started working, I started working with horses actually. I'm not a big horse person. I wish I could be, but I prefer dogs. And so I started working in a vet clinic in grade 10. So I was about 16 then. And I worked there for about 10 years. And then in between there, I started fostering for the lines dog guides of Canada. And then I had a dog that I brought to school everywhere with me. So that was really cool to have through them. And then just in between like COVID and stuff, I had actually gotten a job through Mindful Dog Co. part-time as an assistant. And then I asked her later on, I was like, hey, I'd like to go and start training and being an employee of yours. And then later on, now I've this past year I've switched into more contract work with her so I could open up my own business. Because my goal has always been how do we integrate somatic experiencing with dog training? Because sometimes some of the things I've seen is it's hard for clients to do the work when they're stuck in this anticipated threat or this um remembered threat in their bodies.

Leah Lykos 4:15

Yes. And you're referring to like if you have a reactive dog, or what what is the threat that you are referring to there?

Bianca Low Kum 4:28

It could be anything. Um so actually, I'll go into a story because I think it's easier to explain that way. Because sometimes some of these stories don't have to connect to have the threat now be stuck in the body. So a few months ago, I was I was actually with a client out the I was working for the hospital in the community, and so we were at this intersection, and it was uh a one-way coming right to left. And then if you come down, you can only turn left. So, anyways, we're on the left-hand side corner, and I remember the client distinctly saying, Hey, let's cross the street. And I was like, I don't know if I really want to go across the street because they were doing construction, it's not really a sidewalk, but then I was like, Yeah, okay, it doesn't look too threatening. I observed it. Okay, I don't think we're gonna get hit by cars, so we would cross the street. Anyway, so I'm still paying attention to my right side where the cars are coming because it's kind of a blind area where we're standing, and just paying attention there. And then next thing I know, I heard like a crash. And as soon as I had turned my head to orientate, you saw the collision of this white minivan hitting this small like hatchback, and it hit the curb, and it was it was right where we would have been standing, and you just see the glass shatter and like thrown off to the side, right? And I was like, whoo, that's got my nervous system like that's terrible. And I like remember mentally thinking, I was like, okay, I've gotta go deal with this later, but I'm with a client, right? Anyways, so we left, crossed the street, did our own thing. I did not deal with it right away, I kind of forgot, but then it came back, and so um for some of your listeners who don't know, my dog has seizures, um, and they're pretty severe. Um, even our Nero says that. And so when I was going to sleep, and you can see these stories are not connected at all, but I was going to sleep. I started drifting off to sleep, and he sleeps in my room with me on the floor, and he would he shifted one night. And I was like, I was like, what's going on? And that was new for me because I I instinctively know when it's active seizure and when he's just like moving. But now what happened every time he had moved, I would wake up in the middle of the night. I'm like, like, what's going on? And it actually happened a few times, and then I had to ask a colleague of mine. I was like, hey, can we do like can we do some somatic experiencing work here? Because something's off and it's connected. And I know it's distinctly connected to this instance because my orientation process was thrown off. And so that is what we call overcoupling. So not being able to see and then hearing a noise connected, even though it it had to do with a car accident, it was showing up with um me alerting to there might be a seizure. And like I said before, that was never an issue.

Leah Lykos 7:41

Okay, this makes so much sense. So because your dog was moving at night and you couldn't see the movement, it was actually kind of triggering that car crash where like you were hearing the noise without seeing what was going on.

Bianca Low Kum 8:00

Yeah.

Leah Lykos 8:01

Oh, that's so interesting. Okay, so you mean any type of quote-unquote threat or an experience where we've perceived threat through our neuroception, and then kind of like our baseline of vigilance kind of changes. Would you say it like that? Or how how would you describe that when somebody's just a little extra vigilant to things they weren't before?

Bianca Low Kum 8:31

Yeah, I would say hypervigilance. You you get we call it stuck on on. So in that you're outside of that window of tolerance, your personal window of tolerance, right? And so I may have just been slightly stuck on on for a little too long, but didn't even cognitively realize it.

Leah Lykos 8:51

Yeah, I think that's the really interesting part of this, is that I think people like to kind of overly intellectualize their feelings so that they don't actually have to deal with the sensations that are creating those feelings. And I know I've done that for a really long time, and I'm now working with a somatic experiencing therapist myself. And sometimes we'll just be having a chit chat about something that I don't think is triggering at all, and then all of a sudden I'll feel like, whoa, I'm super activated. I don't even really know why, and I feel like I'm gonna have a panic attack. And it's like, oh, I think I'm kind of like low-key in a panic attack all the time without even realizing.

Bianca Low Kum 9:46

You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you brought up um, you know, we like to talk about the story so we don't have to feel. And that's I think that's absolutely correct. Because the thing about the story is after we finish telling the story, and we tend to try and tell the story as fast as possible, there's this feeling of, oh, I survived that fight, right? Because we're still experiencing that activation as we're telling it. And then at the end, we know we feel good, right? And so I explained this in my webinar that you came to, where it's kind of like you think about um the pit bull terriers, the American pit bull terriers that were bred to fight in the pits, right? Um, they get adrenalized, they don't know what's going on, they fight, they survive, and they're like, oh, that felt good. So then they're like, there's that almost like dopamine hit of like, I want to go again, I want to go fight again. And so we can get caught up in that same kind of like story or that same kind of uh hormonal changes of I want to go back in and tell that story because I know at the end it's gonna make me feel good. And it's and it's a good management strategy for the body.

Leah Lykos 11:09

Okay, that's really interesting. It's almost like we want a little bit of stress and to feel a little bit adrenalized and then to get the relief afterwards, does that in some way tells our brain keep doing that because that worked to keep you alive, even though it didn't necessarily truly resolve the underlying nervous system state, which is now maybe a little bit more hyper-vigilant. So, how do how do we start to resolve that at the physiological level?

Bianca Low Kum 11:49

So pausing, lots and lots of pausing. So you you work with your somatic experiencing practitioner, correct? So I don't know if you notice how often they actually pause you in a story. They're like, let's just pause here. And you're like, you're like, I just want to keep going. And you're like, no, no, no, just pause right here. And and so what they're getting you to do is feeling and just noticing like the micro shift of activation, and you're titrating it. That's what's really important. It's like, how much can I titrate? Just allow allowing just that little bit of like activation of stress and feeling it, and then feeling that deactivation come down. And then, you know, if you're ready and you're like, okay, we can continue to the next story. You you might notice as you go into the next part of story, you go back up and it's like pause again. Like, let's feel it right here. Just sit with that for a moment and then allow yourself to settle in again. And then so you're you're learning that natural rhythm of I can feel activation and then I can deactivate from it without it being so overwhelming.

Leah Lykos 12:59

Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. So instead of like rushing through the whole story and feeling maybe like a little bit activated or some of that mobilization while you're telling it and then just rushing to get to the end, it's like you break it down into all the little parts that you didn't experience when it actually happened. Okay. Yeah, this idea of creating that rhythm of activation and deactivation is something that I find is really important with the dogs. So, like if we did go for a walk with a dog who's reactive and we saw some triggers, afterwards, I like to help people have ideas for like recovery. So, like licking, chewing, or sniffing, so that even though the dog did escalate in their emotions, that we then show them that after escalation there's de-escalation, and now we have recovery after stress. Is that sort of along the same lines?

Bianca Low Kum 14:06

Yeah. So, like when I'm I'm just thinking about how you're doing it. So, yes, in the sense of you're trying to ask yourself, how can we support this dog before the reaction happens? And then how can I support after the reaction? Instead of trying to get right in the middle of the nitty-gritty where it's like really difficult, we're just looking at um, what's the before care? What can I do to support it? And then what you see eventually over time is you can get better and better coming towards the middle, and then they the dog system and you, your system has a better ability to handle when it's really tough right in the middle.

Leah Lykos 14:50

Yes, that's perfect. That's exactly how I envision it.

Bianca Low Kum 14:55

Because I think about um, I love doing the treat chase at the beginning. So if I see the trigger ahead, like and the dog's like a hundred yards, I like the treat chase because it gives something the dog to do versus if you're sitting, you could unintentionally be rewarding the looking, unlocking, but the movement allows the dog to come towards you, and then you're not giving the food right away, but they're putting pressure into your hand as they move away, and you you're like doing something different. So they're building resiliency through that, and then the trigger might pass. But that's that's my before care.

Leah Lykos 15:29

Yeah. So instead of letting the dog sit or stand and load the whole time that the trigger comes in and out of the picture, we are kind of managing it before and after to to hopefully lessen that um, you know, how high they go into their arousal at the peak. So, yeah, your webinar was really, really cool. And I got a lot out of it, especially where you were talking about how if we are not present in our bodies and the dog senses that we're not fully attuned to them or the environment because we can't even be present with ourselves, that that's actually a cue of danger because they feel that you are not capable, maybe, of handling what's going on. So I'd love to have you just speak a little bit about that.

Bianca Low Kum 16:31

Yeah. So so I've seen it a couple of times in the community. A lot of people own dogs, and some of the dogs you can see with the handlers because and I I'm thinking like very high acuity, like not a lot of safety. So we're looking at low income. Um they're on Ontario disability here, and there's still a lot of trauma that needs to be unpacked by these individuals. And so you can see with the way they move, it's very stiff and tight. Um, and so when they're just stiff and tight like that, the fascia's tight, everything, all the signals, so all the signals they would be able to receive can't is reduced quite a bit. So if your your fascia is tight, think about how it's very intertwined like this, and your muscles are going through it, um, your nerves, everything. And if you're tight, you can't receive as much response from stimuli from the external environment. I'm not very greedy to explain this, so but you're not getting as good feedback from the external environment. So you're actually missing things, you're missing cues. And so your dog, they they don't know what's going through your head, they can't read your mind. Um, but they're reading how you move. And they're like, hmm, you're super tense. What is it that you're tense about? And so then they're scanning in the environment to look. Like, what is it? It must be that trigger over that, that new thing that just entered the environment. Maybe it's that, and they might test it, right? And the person just tightens up on that leash, and then that dog's like, okay, maybe it was there. It like confirms it. And then there's that almost this practicing. Then they might see they might test it again, and after they test it by the third time, it becomes a pattern of like this must be it. And also for the person on their side, it's also becomes a pattern too, because now they're like, they've done it three times, they keep doing it, it must be that. Like we're we're our minds are just set to remember patterns too.

Leah Lykos 18:46

Okay, so yeah, the tension in our own bodies is actually telling the dog there's something to be tense about, there's something, maybe it's on the horizon, and they can't quite see it. So then they start scanning for danger because they're like, we are on guard right now. And I think you did explain it really well. It's almost like this armoring, like you have your armor on. So, like it makes it difficult to receive cues of safety, and it makes it difficult to give cues of safety, right?

Bianca Low Kum 19:23

And you think about if you're stuck in that all the time, it changes your hormonal chemistry, it changes how your brain is wired, like just sitting in like this position where your your shoulders are forward, it's like anticipating that threat. It's like trying to protect those internal organs, right? And then the energy it takes for doing that, right? The energy of holding all of that in takes a lot from us. So now we're not only are we not getting that feedback, but we're exhausted from holding everything in and being tense all the time.

Leah Lykos 20:02

Okay, so that would reduce your resilience, reduce your emotional capacity, and the dog is kind of reading that as well that like this person's less capable right now if there were an actual threat of dealing with it, because they're actually using so much energy just constantly throughout the day when there's not threat that like they're depleted basically.

Bianca Low Kum 20:29

Yeah, exactly. And then and then just to add the cherry top, your ability to read what is real threat versus you know perceived threat, like is off, right? And you won't be able to tell to tell when there's actual threat.

Leah Lykos 20:46

Yes, I noticed when I got really burnt out last year, anything that came into my peripheral vision, I was like, danger, danger. And I'm like, oh, this is how my dog feels when she's stressed out because she will alert to any little thing. I mean, she's gotten a lot, a lot better. But I was like, oh, when your capacity is low, everything looks like danger. Mm-hmm.

Bianca Low Kum 21:12

It's so interesting. And and the more I did um somatic experiencing too, because we have we in our training, so it takes about three years to complete, but you also have to be doing your you have to be seeing one-on-one consultations where you do your own somatic experience so you know what it experiences. I thought I I was pretty for the most part, curious person could see, but it it's really interesting to see the shift on how much more you can see. Or even after a session, you might notice, oh, I can hear even more. I can smell even more, I can see even more. And so, for example, whenever whenever it goes from spring, you start to see the uh, I think it's the pine leaves. I had never noticed the difference in color. I was like, oh, that's a really nice color. Or like just seeing in the ground, um, earthworms make really cool holes in the way the mud pools on the side, like things you would not notice if you weren't orientating to your environment or if you weren't looking for more of that curiosity.

Leah Lykos 22:24

Okay, yeah. So when you have really high sympathetic tone, it kind of gives you tunnel vision. Yeah. Where you're just looking for threat. But when you have a little more parasympathetic online, you can widen your vision, actually, your hearing. What you're saying is really all of our senses widen to the and larger environment. Yeah. And then that I feel like is actually create, doesn't that actually create the feedback loop where it's like, oh, now I can actually perceive what's there and there isn't threat. So then that kind of becomes a cue of safety, right?

Bianca Low Kum 23:08

Yeah. It's it's that orientating process of like looking for that thing that brings you just a little bit of comfort, and then checking in of like, how do I know that's comfort? And learning what that feels like. Because oftentimes, and I see this all the time, I'll ask a client, I'll say, What do you notice inside? And oftentimes the answer is less tension or less constriction. I was like, okay, but what do you what do you actually notice? So I'm looking for languaging like softness, openness, but they're so used to looking for that threat, it's just oh, there's just less of that. And so how helping them like practice changing the languaging of oh, this is what softness feels like, even there it's important.

Leah Lykos 24:02

Yes. Okay, so while we're on the subject of orienting to the environment, you had also said something really interesting. I know the I just lost my train of thought for a second. Okay, wait. You took a training with Nelson Hodges with a canine human relationship institute.

Bianca Low Kum 24:32

Yes.

Leah Lykos 24:34

And you were mentioning how you had learned that like when the dog is orienting or orientating, that if you take part in that process, it kind of reassures them or creates like a connection. Do you want to explain that?

Bianca Low Kum 24:51

Oh, are you I think you might be talking about the follow the dog exercise? Okay, yeah, why don't you talk about that? So that one that's a fun exercise. It feels a little weird um because it requires you to sniff with your dog and actually like make those sniffing sounds, like and people get really awkward about it. Um, and and so and I'm like, you you don't have to like crouch all the way down and get two inches from what they're sniffing. You can do it. I want you to do it enough that your dog can hear you. And so sniffing is such a big part of how they see their world, the how dogs see the world. It's like their primary sense. And so what you're doing is partaking in the thing that they enjoy doing. And so I think that's that's really what it is. It's how can I be present in the thing? It's like when your kid comes up to you and says, Hey, let's go do this together, let's go draw a picture together, and you're present and you're doing that thing with your kid that they're they want you to do. And so we're doing the same thing, but sniffing.

Leah Lykos 26:05

Um, cool. Okay, yeah, that makes sense because that's how dogs really scan their environment through the nose.

Bianca Low Kum 26:14

Um and some might be more like, you know, some breeds are eye sight oriented. So even just, oh, what's that? We're looking in the distance. Let's just check it out together. Like we're not moving, we're just watching it go by.

Leah Lykos 26:29

Yes. So that's a little different than what we were talking about before. We're like, we don't want to let the dog load on a trigger once there actually is a trigger and they just want to like stare at it. Um, but when some new stimulus comes into the environment and they pause to look or sniff, you're saying it's good to also pause with them and kind of say, Hey, I recognize that you are noticing this thing. I'm also noticing it.

Bianca Low Kum 27:01

Yeah, right. It's just acknowledging it, like acknowledging what they're seeing. I think all beings just want to be acknowledged, right? That's really what it is.

Leah Lykos 27:13

I think that's a huge part of attunement, is just being like, I I see you, I see what you're going through. I I was gonna say, my my little female dog who is really sensitive and reactive, she is almost constantly staring at my face to I think read the muscle tone of my facial features. And she, I'll notice like if I'm tense and she looks at me while I'm tense, then like she's tense. And I'm like, oh wait, wait, I gotta soften, and then she'll soften, and it's like a real-time like feedback loop. Um, so yeah, I think that's really interesting. And so you place a lot of emphasis on the human kind of being self-aware of their own state or their or the level of tension that they're carrying and how that might affect the relationship.

Bianca Low Kum 28:11

I do think about that. The problem is not everyone is coming to training to be like, hey, let's work on my mental health. Yeah, exactly. And so right now I'm trying to play around with being directive because sometimes they're in such a state of overwhelm, they just you could talk about this theory and talk about, you know, um nervous system and regulation, and they're just not there. Like it's almost like you need to be directive and giving more management strategies so they can get to that point where they're a little bit softer. So it's almost like I have to give you practical step one, step two, and also be more hey, you're gonna do 20 reps of recall almost because saying, hey, what works for you and your schedule seems not to be able to click for them almost. I'm noticing it's like they don't even have that ability, they're just so overwhelmed and stuck. That's what I've noticed. I don't know if you've noticed that with your training clients.

Leah Lykos 29:24

Yeah, I think a lot of people would really like me to just show up and work with the dog and fix the dog. And it is really tricky to broach that subject of how are you feeling right now? And uh how are you feeling about the dog? And a lot of times people are pretty open, they're like, I'm really tense because he's tense, and so then we get that stuckness where we're in a loop because they're both giving signals to each other that something's not right, so yeah, it is a really curious thing of like, how do we interrupt that loop just a little bit? And what you're saying is just giving practical management techniques and that maybe like the hand feeding on the walk is like a little window or a little entry point into connecting the human and the dog and getting them to like even move in sync a little bit. Um, and maybe that's like the little entry point to like getting them to synchronize in a positive feedback loop.

Bianca Low Kum 30:38

Yeah, it's almost like the oh, I can do this, right? It just gives them that small little win.

Leah Lykos 30:45

Yeah, because not everybody is calling a dog trainer to get a somatic experiencing uh session, right?

Bianca Low Kum 30:57

Yeah.

Leah Lykos 30:58

Um, so then the other thing that we connected on that was really cool is I love to teach people canine resistance training where the dog is actually dragging weight and doing some physical work. And then I saw on your Instagram that you're doing sledding with the dogs.

Bianca Low Kum 31:17

Yes. Yeah.

Leah Lykos 31:20

Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Bianca Low Kum 31:24

Uh, great question. Well, sledding, I just got a sled this year, so I'm not actually I should preface this. I have not been doing sledding for very long. I have done weight pull with sled sledding harnesses, um, mostly because I was doing a lot of candy cross. Um, where I run a club where we canny cross is, for those of you don't know, um, it's the dog is pulling into a proper pulling harness and attached to you by a leash, and then you're attached by waistbelts and they're pulling you while you're running. Um, and then through that you naturally just get into sledding as well. Um, sledding's a little different because a little bit slower. You're not going as fast, depending. It depends on the dogs you have. Like if you have those German short hair pointers, oh, those dogs are fast. Yeah. I did do a class just because it it's an intro sledding class. Um, more just so people could try out different sports and see what's out there. Um, because not everyone knows what's out there, but I was uh I had a German Shepherd come out and a lot of the other the other clients, I was like, Yeah, we can have them run and pull the sled, you know, just recall them so you could see what it looks like. But this German Shepherd, he's so aroused that I was like, we're not gonna do that. He's already adrenalized, he doesn't need more adrenalization. He can work for it because you could see he would get overwhelmed and then start like getting a little nippy. Like, or trying to like be like, hey, what's that behind me? Trying to nip at the the line behind him or the harness. So I was like, this is a dog we need to go slow.

Leah Lykos 33:20

Yes, I like to talk about that a lot, like the quality of the dog's movement can actually inform their nervous system state, and like you're talking about uh the hormones that get released and then brain chemicals and neurotransmitters. So, like a lot of dogs do really well with the drag work or the resistance training because it's slow and it actually helps the quality of the movement to drag something really heavy. They're working, they're in a state of drive, but they're still moving slowly. So it kind of shows them that like a little bit of activation is good, and they can experience that activation in a really positive way where they don't go into that totally activated fight flight, yeah, right.

Bianca Low Kum 34:12

And I was actually just thinking about you when I was working with this German Shepherd, because we had just we were just talking about it, and I was like, and that's actually what informed me of that decision to be like, this is not the dog to go fast with just yet. He already knows how to go fast. Yeah.

Leah Lykos 34:29

Oh, yeah, and we were talking about also the pressure of the harness could actually be therapeutic, like a weighted blanket or anything that gives a sense of like containment to the body, so that the body can feel its own boundaries and have some internal feedback with the interoception. And I think that helps calm the dog. I've seen it where like you take a dog who's very high, sympathetic, and just like alerting on everything and like made like uh spinning. If you've ever had a dog like that, every time they get aroused, they spin. And so then I had him drag some weight, and because he had that forward momentum and the pressure of the harness, he kept moving forward in a much smoother fashion, so that his movement before was really turbulent, I would say, and maybe a little chaotic. And then we kind of like slowed him down, and it was much more like a laminar movement, like smooth and calming. And I think that changes their state of mind.

Bianca Low Kum 35:42

Yeah. It may it makes me think of so in my somatic experiencing sessions, um, sometimes I'll say when when clients are noticing a lot of activation in certain part of their body, so say it's their throat or their stomach, I'll say something, I'll invite them, I'll say, Hey, if it feels more supportive, why don't you put a hand there on your throat or your stomach and just leave it there? And they'll notice, even just the touch of having it there, just helps to come, like what helps them come down a little bit. And um you can see them softening and them noticing, hey, I'm softening, and I'm noticing a little more spaciousness.

Leah Lykos 36:23

Yeah, I think you and I could come up with a whole somatic experiencing program just for dogs. Maybe I should take the training. Because I feel like that's kind of like I'm trying to apply these concepts to the dogs, like slow them down when they need to slow down. Also, some dogs actually need to kind of speed up. Not not we don't want to get them too speedy, but like if they're shut down, the movement is also good because it starts to unfreeze their system. So, yeah, it's just really fascinating. I wonder if also the human and the dog kind of bonding over this activity is then creating a connection where the human sees their dog enjoying the walk or enjoying being outside without being hyper-vigilant. And then, you know, like we talked about before, that's like a little window to break that feedback loop.

Bianca Low Kum 37:26

I think so. I think it's them because now they're seeing it in real time, and they're like, Oh, I can relax, I don't have to hold on to that, and you see the opposite effect. It's sometimes for some people, seeing is believing.

Leah Lykos 37:40

Yeah, and it's a way to sort of address the issue, if you want to call it that, without like head-on being like, you need to calm down. Like, that never works. Like, I know if somebody tells me to calm down, like that's actually gonna make me more vigilant. And it's kind of like what we do with the dogs. It's like just sit still and calm down, and that kind of goes against what their nervous system is telling them.

Bianca Low Kum 38:09

It is because like you think about a dog in a sitting position is not a very safe spot to be. Like, you sit when you're about to relax, you lay down when you're about to relax. So asking them to hold a sit, the question is like, but why? I mean, especially if you haven't, I should backtrack, if you've practiced it as sitting can equal safety and we've cued it that way. I get that. But if you're constantly doing the sit in a situation where there's threat coming, you haven't really practiced it a different way of seeing that sit almost. And so sit then just means we're not safe.

Leah Lykos 38:50

Exactly. Because if their nervous system is saying, hey, we need to fight or flee, and you're saying, no, it's cool to just sit here while this threat approaches, then I think it almost like not only kind of increases their activation, but it kind of makes them feel like this person doesn't know what they're doing. And it might like kind of also erode a little bit of trust because they're like, um, excuse me, there's a huge threat coming towards us, and you want to just sit here, right? Yep. So I think syncing up like that with the dog a little bit, you don't like if they're totally off the wall and over threshold, you don't want to like match that energy. So that actually brings me to the next subject is how do we start to co-regulate? What does co-regulation actually mean? Um, and how do we help the dog to kind of get out of those highly activated states?

Bianca Low Kum 40:02

So I think before you even get to co-regulation, you it depends. So hold on. Let me think. But okay, let me go this way and then I'll come back. So to get to co-regulation, you need to first be able to self-regulate. Like if you're trying to be like, hey, I'm gonna co-regulate with my, I'm gonna help co-regulate with my dog, you need to be able to self-regulate. And that's a really hard place to be. And I don't think people realize how hard it is with the way people just throw out the languaging nowadays, with like nervous system regulation and calmness. And I think sometimes it gets regulation gets mistaken for being I need to be flat.

Leah Lykos 40:52

Yes.

Bianca Low Kum 40:52

Right. And so they're taking these deep breaths and they're doing I'm not, I don't know if you remember, I'm not a fan of the box breath. Um I guess I should probably say why I'm not a fan of the box breath. I find the box breath is very forced. So if you're not ready to do the box breath and you're trying to force yourself because you're like, I need to calm down, it's it's not necessarily helpful because you're you're you're not allowing what needs to happen to happen almost. Um, and it's fine in management strategies where it's like, am I gonna punch a guy out versus you know, I'm angry and I just don't want to feel anger, right? Two different scenarios. Fine if you need to, so you don't punch a person out. But if it's more you're in a spot where you can let's look at the anger and be with the anger, very different. I would say go be with the anger, not try box breath yourself out. Um, let me come back to that thought. So so self-regulation. So you I I think this is where, even in terms of regulation, I need to be clear to make sure people I don't misspeak either. So imagine you have this window of tolerance. Everyone knows what a window of tolerance means. Everyone knows that you know, you always need to be inside your window of tolerance. It's a great place to be. And I think what always gets missed is sometimes you'll go outside your window of tolerance when there's a massive threat. That doesn't mean you're no longer regulated, and that's where it goes wrong. Everyone's like, I'm out of my window of tolerance, I am not regulated anymore. This is dysregulation. Um, and that's not true. So because that is a normal automatic response to come out of your window of tolerance, okay? And then you're immediately gonna drop down to like high-tone dorsal, and this this all happens within seconds. So, you know, you may not even see the seconds, but you know, it's simplified so we can understand it. And so you go up so you can you, so you can go into that tunnel vision so you can dilate, so you can see, so you can prepare to mobilize, and then you know, you go, you drop down into that high tone dorsal so you can like pause for just a moment to think about what's going on, and then you might go back up outside your window of tolerance. But really, if eventually maybe it might take an hour, maybe it takes 30 minutes, maybe some people take 30 seconds and they're back into their window of tolerance. It just depends where you are in your journey. But that's what regulation is is like that flexibility of experiencing activation and deactivation, and then just coming back within what is tolerable, right? So just because you go out of your window of tolerance doesn't mean you're dysregulated. Um, dysregulation is more so there was too much. Too soon. Too much too soon for too long. Generally, that's what it is, right? And that could be something big that happens, like car accidents, um, major surgery, or it could be something that's over time of nobody listened to your emotional needs for a really long time and you kept getting pushed aside. Maybe you kept pushing aside your emotional needs for a very long time. Or maybe it's something simple like I just didn't have the resources because financials, resources, everything hit all at once, and that was a struggle. And so then when we look at dysregulation in that aspect, what it looks like is you're on for way too long. So like I am in this highly, I'm outside of my window of tolerance like this for forever, like days. And then eventually the body is like, you need time to rest, but it forces you into a shutdown state to rest, and you're totally depleted, you're totally exhausted, you're um distant, you're disconnected from others. So that and you're depressed, that is that is more what dysregulation looks like. It's not as flexible or fluid. Um and then you get disorganized, right? So that's more if you start to get symptoms, like we call them syndromal symptoms. So where um you start to get GI tract issues, you start to get these autoimmune disease issues, that is your body not knowing what to do and then attacking itself because there's too much, and so there's no organization, it's very disorganized. Um but that's an aside. Anyways, you asked me how do we co-regulate?

Leah Lykos 45:50

Okay, wait, can I just sum up what you just said really quickly? So, what I understand is that to be truly quote unquote dysregulated, that happens over a very long period of time where you're under either under chronic stress or you have experienced a capital T, big trauma, and then your nervous system has shifted, maybe um, to be hyper-vigilant for a very long time. And so experiencing too much of that for too long is what creates dysregulation or causes your nervous system to be disorganized, where then you're not responding to actual threat, but you're seeing threat everywhere. Is that Hannah?

Bianca Low Kum 46:42

Yeah. So remember, we can go back to the story I'd said earlier about um, you know, when I heard the car accident, I wouldn't even call myself dysregulated because I was very aware, I was like, something is off. So I could quickly recognize something was off. And after I did my somatic experiencing session with my colleague, came back down. So I would say for the most part, I've got a pretty regulated nervous system because I was very conscious about it. But if you didn't recognize that was going on, and then you you just left it kept going on for a really long time and it was never dealt with, I think that's when it goes into dysregulation there.

Leah Lykos 47:21

Okay, yeah, and I've experienced that myself where I stay too high for too long, and then there's the collapse, and I'm like, oh, why am I burnt out? Oh, well, because I wasn't, you know, in that rhythm of healthy escalation and de-escalation. I was staying stuck in one state for too long. And um, yeah, I think the same exact thing can happen to dogs, and people don't even realize it. They're just like, oh, he's just a really hyper dog. He's just really friendly, he's just really busy all the time. And it's like, oh, but when does he rest? Like, when does he experience connection when he's not hyperactive or hyper-friendly? Um, so yeah, let's get into okay. So, say we're kind of experiencing a healthy rhythm inside of our window of tolerance. And I'm really happy actually that you explained that just because you go outside the window because you're responding to a situation or a threat does not mean there's something wrong with your nervous system and that you're automatically dysregulated. Because responding to the environmental stressors is what your nervous system's supposed to do.

Bianca Low Kum 48:31

Yeah, and I and I see that languaging get thrown around too with dogs. Like people will say, My dog's dysregulated, and they'll have a reaction at something and then cut come down and they're perfectly fine afterwards. And I was like, well, that's not again, it's not really a dysregulated nervous system compared to our hyperactive dogs that are just on all the time.

Leah Lykos 48:53

Right. Like if the UPS guy comes up on my porch and my dogs get, you know, they look a little ragey sometimes. They don't want the they don't want strangers on our porch. That's not dysregulation. That's like they're doing their job, their nervous system is recognizing a potential threat. And if they can come down afterwards within a reasonable amount of time, they experience recovery from that stress, then like that's not what dysregulation is.

Bianca Low Kum 49:22

Yeah, exactly.

Leah Lykos 49:23

Okay, cool. So, yeah, so let's talk a little bit about how you would define or explain co-regulating.

Bianca Low Kum 49:32

Okay. So let's assume you know how to self-regulate now at this point, knowing what we know. So co-regulation is your ability to stay connected within yourself and be present while another being is dysregulated or just in distress, right? So we're not it means we're not gonna merge in with them. Um and so merging can kind of look like we lose boundaries within our own self. Um I I work, I've seen it a lot in the seizure groups I'm in. So an example is I never I can I can't go on vacation ever. I can't go on vacation because no one else can take care of my dogs except for me. Like, what if they seize? And seizures are one of those things that's gonna happen. You can't stop it, even if you were there. Right. Right? Or you see it in hoarding cases a lot, actually. Um, I remember this one lady, I was like, listen, you're in a really tough spot, you can't take care of them. And her response was always, no, no, no, I just need to get the fleas under control, I just need to get them bathed, and then everything was good, and then I can sell them and it'll be great. And I'll have less puppies. But it was never getting to the point of doing all these tasks. At that point, they had 17 dogs. I was like, it's unmanageable what you're trying to do. And so you can see that merging right there. Um, or not even having, you know, sometimes it's like, hey, my dog's distressed. That's their stuff. Like recognizing I've taken, you know, distress can look like many things. So even just dogs whining, sometimes dogs whining, I have to really, that's one of my harder ones to stick present with. But remembering, like, hey, I've fed you, I've walked you, you've gone out to the bathroom, right? You've had water, you don't need anything from me right now in this moment because you could easily go into that merging of like getting frustrated because they're whining and they're demanding at you, but just remembering, like, hey, I have done everything I needed for you. Like, I now practicing staying that presence within yourself. So that is what co-regulation will look like. And that's where it's that balance where it can be really difficult.

Leah Lykos 52:02

It is really difficult. I think I told you on the webinar that like I fully admit I'm codependent with my dogs. And that's where you explained that codependency is this merging of nervous systems because maybe you don't have the capacity in yourself to hold a boundary. And um yeah, the whining also, if it's like a high-pitch whining, I think it triggers, especially in women, like that mommy brain, like, oh, the baby's crying. You know what I mean? So I think there's like many different factors going on, and also this feeling of like, I'm not okay if my dogs aren't okay, because I'm a caretaker and I need to make sure everything and everyone is okay before I can relax. Maybe that's just my own programming and my my own issues, but I I do see that a lot. And another example of the merging of nervous systems, I almost always have a dog in my life that I don't know how I want to say this, is kind of like a project dog that is very high needs. And so sometimes I'm like, I can't leave. Like the example you gave of a dog with medical issues, these are behavioral issues, but it's like nobody can touch this dog except me. So what if I go away and there's an emergency, nobody's gonna be able to take care of her, you know? And so, yeah, we need to figure out a way to get over these hurdles because the more you get entangled in that story, I think that's really emotionally draining.

Bianca Low Kum 53:42

Yeah. And then that's where you know those thoughts of hopelessness starts to come up, right? Because you lose that curiosity of like, how else can I better plan and support? So, like, I know I'm gonna go away um in September. So I'm thinking about, okay, well, it'll be too much for him to go to someone. So I'm gonna have a friend come over. Like, I'm gonna prepare her as best as I can and give her all the important numbers, and whatever happens, happens. Because at the end of the day, say something he does go into a terrible seizure, like it would have still happened with me, anyways, potentially. Like you, you don't have sometimes you don't have the control over anything, and we like to blame ourselves, but hindsight's always 2020.

Leah Lykos 54:27

Um, yeah, and I think we do a lot for our dogs. I think, like you said, we exercise them, we feed them, we we spend a lot of time caring for them, and then if we forget to refill our own cup, it's like we're just gonna get drained, right? I mean, they give back so much, but we have to make sure not to get stuck in yet another loop where it's like you're getting depleted because of maybe some lack of boundaries or just a mindset that like I'm the only one. I'm the you know, I'm the chosen one. Like a savior complex or something. But um, yeah, that's really interesting. I do want to help people start to co-regulate a little bit more, but like we talked about in the beginning, it's not always easy to broach that subject because it kind of feels like you're trying to give the client therapy and they think you're there to just train the dog. Um so yeah.

Bianca Low Kum 55:30

Yeah, it's so tricky because it's you know, you and your dog is a partnership. So your dog can also co-regulate with you. Actually, I think you see dogs co-regulating more with people than people co-regulating with their dogs. Um, and that's usually like people love when their dog snuggles and they put their head on them when they're feeling low and stuff. Um I think Nelson says they're doing that because they need you to get back up and get back in the game, basically, because you know, their survival depends on it. And you can't be weak in that sense. You need to be going and getting back to your regular self. So, because the survival of the pack itself depends on it.

Leah Lykos 56:14

Oh, that's really cool. So they're kind of doing it not in a totally selfless way. They're like, I need you to be okay so that we are okay together. But yeah, that's really interesting because sometimes the dog is the anchoring presence. I know, like I have a mastiff who's almost 150 pounds, and his breathing is really slow, and his heart rate tends to be a lot slower than like my little 30-pound dog. She's like, go, go, go. Everything for her is fast, right? That's not really very regulating for me. It's fun when we're on a hike in the woods and she's, you know, just dashing around the woods and it's really joyful. But when we're at home and she's really speedy, I kind of turn more towards my bigger dog who's a lot slower. And like I really love the sound of him like snoring. I know snoring's not physiologically healthy, but when he is in a really deep sleep and he makes that grunty little snoring sound, it's really soothing to me. And so I think we can, you know, not not be codependent with the dogs, but understand, like, oh, this is helping me to regulate, and and then you can kind of take turns, yes, hopefully reciprocate.

Bianca Low Kum 57:35

I think that's it. It's like finding the reciprocity between it, like where you're not just taking. There's always that line of like, okay, kind of coming back to, you know, we think about follow the dog we were talking about earlier. This is me giving to you and being and doing the things you want. And then, hey, later on, I want to utilize that deep breathing you have, or that deep pressure when you put your head on me, and then having that partnership of we worked both ways. And then it's a little more reciprocal. But it's I think what's really important is having those clear boundaries and recognizing it, right?

Leah Lykos 58:13

Yeah, that's really the key, I think. Okay, I think we touched on a lot actually. Human nervous system, dog nervous system, and then the relationship between the two. Did you want to let people know where they can find you, your website, and any upcoming events?

Bianca Low Kum 58:39

Um, usually the best place is Instagram. It's Primal Wisdom Healing. There's a lot of dots in there, so primal dot wisdom dot healing. Okay. Um and then that's probably the easiest way to contact me. I usually do host I don't actually have a set schedule of when I host putting you first in dog training, but it's actually one of my favorite ones to do. Um, typically I do it live. I really like live because I like being able to engage with the people. And I think because I do do an a somatic experiencing demo in there, and I think it does require it to be live, and it's always interesting to see what comes up. Um sometimes I have an idea of where I want it to go, but sometimes we never get there because it's not necessarily and that's the thing about somatic experiencing, you never know where you're gonna go with it. And but it gives people a taste of what is it actually looks like and what does it feel like.

Leah Lykos 59:39

I guess I meant to actually define somatic in the beginning because yeah, let's just tell people what that actually means. Okay.

Bianca Low Kum 59:52

So soma, you know, we take the Greek word from that, that means the body. And so when someone says, Hey, I work in somatics, that could be anything. So that could be yoga, that could be breath work, that could you're you go into the gym is soma.

Leah Lykos 1:00:12

Right.

Bianca Low Kum 1:00:12

Soma just means the body. So somatics is the body. Um, the experiencing. So if we look very specialized in what I do, so somatic experiencing is the body's experience, so really bringing forth and paying attention to that. So um sitting with uncomfortable and comfortable uncomfortable and comfortable emotions and sensations. Because oftentimes what happens, if you've been suppressing all the uncomfortable feelings, you've also been suppressing all the good stuff too. It's not the body doesn't recognize, oh, we're just gonna ignore the anxiety right here. It's gonna suppress everything. And so what happens is then once we lose that ability, that tolerance to experience the uncomfortable, we also lose the ability to experiencing joy and peace and all of that. Um, and so somatic experiencing is all about gently and like titrating slowly, going really, really slow about coming back to experiencing all these little things. So then we can have more capacity, more tolerance, experiencing our full range of emotions.

Leah Lykos 1:01:22

Okay, cool. And that's what creates like a higher level of resilience and um I guess a larger emotional capacity to then deal with stressors without getting stuck in a certain state. So we have that autonomic flexibility.

Bianca Low Kum 1:01:42

Yes.

Leah Lykos 1:01:43

But you have to do it slowly. I think that's the that's the key.

Bianca Low Kum 1:01:47

Yes, because oftentimes, so you know, I think you see on social media a lot people having these big releases and you're like, that's what I want, and it feels really good. But once you get home and you're by yourself, the question is, do you have the capacity now for that new self that you just entered? And if you didn't, your body's like, This feels like threat. And so then you're gonna take a whole step back, like two steps, three steps back, and shell up because it doesn't feel safe. Being in this new type of space where you weren't prepared for isn't necessarily safety. Um I actually have a really good story about that. So last story, and then I guess we'll end it. Um I actually had a client we were doing in somatic experiencing, and it was out in the community. And when she met me, I think even having that like regulated presence was too much for her to handle. And so we did maybe one or two sessions together, and then she never saw me again for a little bit, right? But I remember she would go to a different um someone else, and they were rec therapists, they were they were they have a lot of lived experience, and I and I found their nervous system for me when I was around them, I didn't love it because it was too dysregulating and I could feel it. Like I knew I was like, mm-mm, that's not what I want to be around. Like you could feel the hot and cold really quickly, the moving really fast. But for this client, that was safety. Yeah, really interesting, right? Because you're like, that's not safety, this hot and cold, you don't know what you're doing.

Leah Lykos 1:03:41

But it feels familiar.

Bianca Low Kum 1:03:43

Yes, that's safe. Exactly. And so he was able to teach all the stuff like the theory and stuff for them to understand. Um, so just talking about, you know, the nervous system, mindfulness, and she was able to access that because she felt safe with his nervous system, right?

Leah Lykos 1:04:03

Oh my gosh, this is really interesting.

Bianca Low Kum 1:04:06

And then when she came back to working with me, she had more capacity for that.

Leah Lykos 1:04:12

Okay, okay, okay. Okay, I have a quick little story. Yeah. I got a massage last week, and I'm thinking, oh, I'm doing my self-care. I'm gonna get relaxed, I'm gonna get rid of the tension in my body. I have the most amazing massage therapist. She got me so relaxed that I almost felt like I was in an altered state just from because it was so different than how I normally hold a lot of tension in my body. And I like immediately went to a cafe and got a cup of coffee, which I've been battling my caffeine addiction for some years now. But then I realized, oh, being that relaxed and that soft did not feel safe. So then I, you know, guzzled the caffeine to like get myself back into a more alert state. And so it was like, oh, that was actually too much too soon. Too much relaxation. So it's almost counterintuitive sometimes. But I think, like we said, just the baby steps is yeah, where we're sometimes exactly.

Bianca Low Kum 1:05:25

So safety can feel like threat if you've never experienced safety or you don't have the practice around being in because it's so unfamiliar. You're like waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Leah Lykos 1:05:36

Yeah, that happens to me a lot when I get body work, and I think I'm doing something really good for myself, but it it's such a huge shift. So I think we should keep that in mind for ourselves, for our dogs, that we're not aiming to like fix things right away. This is gonna be a long, slow process. It's like we're in it for the long game, kind of. Yeah, did you have any just closing remarks or anything else you want to plug or promote?

Bianca Low Kum 1:06:08

Or I'm open if you want to do one-on-one somatic experiencing sessions. Um, we can do them online, or if you're in Ontario, we can do in person. Um yeah. I I don't think or or if you know if you want dog training sessions, if you want to see what they combined, we can also do that.

Leah Lykos 1:06:30

Yeah, that's really cool.

Bianca Low Kum 1:06:32

Okay, great.

Leah Lykos 1:06:33

So I'll link to your Instagram and your website. Okay. And um I mean, I think you and I could go on and on about this for for hours. So we might do a part two if people are really interested. We should. Yeah.

Bianca Low Kum 1:06:49

I because we're doing touch work in May. So that's the last part of my training is touch work. And so I'm really excited about that to see how do you incorporate touch work and what does it look like? Because it when I think about somatic experiencing, it's everything is slow. And so none of this fast, like touching, and I think it's really just like I said, put that supportive hand there. What does that feel like? That would be a cool one to talk about.

Leah Lykos 1:07:17

So let's reconnect after you finish that. And uh I just love talking to you about this stuff because we're just so on the same page with it, and um, yeah, thanks for joining us.

Bianca Low Kum 1:07:30

Thanks for having me, Leah.

Leah Lykos 1:07:35

Hello, my somatic friends. I just wanted to jump on here at the end and say thank you for joining us. I had so much fun speaking with Bianca all about nervous system health, and I hope that you will check out her website and her Instagram. Everything will be linked in the show notes. We also wanted to mention that she will be hosting Nelson Hodges of Canine Human Relationship Institute this summer in Beamsville, Ontario. And from June 6th through 8th, you can take relationship-based behavior modification level one. You can also take Art of Leash and Longline Handling from June 9th through 11th. And I believe that course has a prerequisite of taking the level one behavior modification course. So check those out through her Instagram, or you can go to the Canine Human Relationship Institute on Instagram or their website and get more information about those offerings. I will also be compiling a little glossary of terms for anyone who is not familiar with some of the lingo that we were using in today's episode, such as window of tolerance or high-toned dorsal and so on and so forth, just so everything becomes clear. I don't want to alienate anybody by the fact that we were using these sort of specialized terms or language. And I also just wanted to remind everyone that I have a new online learning platform at Center for Canine Somatics, where I'm offering some webinars and some online classes for you to learn all about how to co-regulate with your dog. So please check that out as well. Center for Canine Somatics.com. And I once again thank you for listening. Please subscribe if you found this useful or interesting. Share with a friend, rate and review on your favorite platform, and I'll connect with you in the next episode.